Chia Bros Chat - Chia Plot Format 2.0, Replotting, Chia Friends vs Foes, Garage Datacenter - EP 23

Austin and I break it down in the latest Chia Bros Chat talking Chia Plot Format 2.0, Chia farming, Chia Friends vs Chia Foes, and Garage Datacenter.

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Transcript

0:03

all right everybody I hope you are having a great day wherever you're at Austin how are you doing today I'm doing pretty good been a while since we uh chatted but stuck to uh chat talk about the ecosystem a little bit um and yeah how are you doing you've been building a data center you've been building like like is that like an Amazon data center that you're building in your house right now apparently it's more infrastructure than some companies have I didn't quite know that but I've been told that by two fairly large companies that work with uh Enterprise I've seen a lot of data centers that are really really big I've seen companies that have data centers that span into the tens of racks very frequently so I don't think of it as a full-fledged data center I think of it more like a mini data center I think after you get out of one or two racks you probably are kind of there and you do have to start approaching things from a different mindset for building so a lot of planning has to go into it if I screw one thing up it can have bad Ripple effects that are going to and I'm learning this firsthand right now bad ripple effect eggs that are like okay now I've got to deal with that gigantic problem because you can't just move essentially six thousand pounds very easily six thousand pounds so is that with hard drives fully filled pretty much all that good stuff uh so the heaviest rack is the j-bod rack and that's going to come in right at about 2100 pounds when all of the hard drives are filled in it and that is those are stupid heavy like getting the final one in up there was a definite challenge I should not have actually like addressed that challenge individually I should have Team lifted but team me got it in there uh I will say that I am also like pretty bruised up I don't see you know if you can see the Brews that I've got going there but like it it's been brutal and that is the heaviest one they go down to about I would say 1500 is the other two so that is wow and so you're so your main plan with this is to basically have like your your home networking you want to plot to fill up hard drives that you're gonna sell right what else do you plan on doing with it is that pretty much it uh definitely not I can't say all of the plans but I actually am working with some people on some additional things that'll be very exciting uh the probably biggest thing is that there will be a lot of content around the web3 focus and the what can I do web3 with my own resources how can I earn with it what can I make out of it so there there will be a multitude of ongoing running projects that happen in the data center there's also aspects of what I you know my home networking is insane but I I would say this is not the level of Home networking as a matter of fact that's probably the biggest criticism people like lot at me they're like you do not need that much infrastructure of networking I'm like I have a storage Network I've got it literally transmitting storage on Block Level over Network so I mean I've got a storage Network also so yeah of course I need it uh but you don't have to go this big I am literally pushing the bounds of how big can I go in a household footprint again this is just not utilizing electricity that would be outside the norm for a 200 amp service on a house and I want to see what we can make happen with that and there will be a variety of topics also that cover things like true Nas unraid how to scale those out how they can interrupt at really high performance levels and also dabbling into HPC so doing some distributed compute you and some distributed programming that might be able to tie those machines together through Technologies like RDMA wow lots of words I don't know but that sounds just incredible I um yeah I'm excited to see kind of how that comes into fruition and once that's done um some of it's gonna like the cool part is I am learning on the fly with a lot of it so I hit record literally and we learn together that seems to be one of the go-to's I'm horrible estimating and planning so it has been a month and almost two weeks now that I've been building this out I planned it actually going into this for a pretty good amount of time like I have you know tapos I have rack layouts all those are on like version four now so everything's pivoted significantly constrictions like that and building once you start building walls and permanent you know infrastructure you're like oh I gotta change things uh but at the same time I feel like I didn't do a good enough job on the planning phase still so yeah there's Lessons Learned here I've got a document that I'm going to go over which is the costs and Lessons Learned of doing all of this so that breakdown is going to be ridiculous I it's expensive but worth it but worth it yeah but worth it uh I've got to also say like I don't advocate for people to necessarily scale out a Chia operation in exactly this fashion this is not super optimized for if you were just growing Chia I mean one rack I can hit about 8.6 petabytes it's a [ __ ] look right but if you're scaling out uh you would probably want to go with actually more dense jbods than what I've got is probably one of the good ways to go you have to do a cost balance and I've got a lot of sheets that talk about that that I've got a rack TCO sheet that I'm going to be releasing to people it is really a very difficult sheet to consume I actually need to have you look at it uh and see if we can make something a little bit easier and user friendly but rack TCO is something that you would want to consider with Chia and making the cost balance of it as efficient as you can is something that's big and I have some measurements now that I can Baseline off to say this looks like wattage and so much now comes down to wattage and the efficiency of wattage in your density of operations that I think that's actually elevated for me on the level of concerns from even like four or five months ago to the number two spot so TCO that's total cost of ownership right yeah I feel like most people don't really talk about TCO but it's probably one of the most important thing things I would say with like it when it comes to farming at this scale right it is and so I think the other thing is you know Chia is meant to be literally run in a specific fashion and so when you're looking at like your total cost of ownership you have to say what is ongoing op costs and how you scale out has a big impact on ongoing out costs and some of the things that we saw early on on Chia people fomoing into drives over 20 terabyte or 20 per terabyte for instance I kept running poles sorry dude I do have a few of those but it's all right I kept running polls and asking people what prices do you think are good this was like last year uh for buying hard drives at and I was very careful not to recommend this because I have prior experience in crypto and I knew you overspend on crypto Hardware very very difficult to recoup it and even people now getting you know looking at their GPU operations they're experiencing the same because they overpaid it prices for gpus literally unless you got in when gpus were at retail or near retail you overpaid for gpus people with like 50 GPU operations are lucky if they walked out after they've you know sold off depreciated all of the like expenses they can and then look at their profit under ten thousand dollars that's depressing that is one of the reasons I did not get back into GPU farming this time around is because I knew I've already missed the window on getting low-cost hardware and it just is impossible if you missed that window yeah 100 and going back I wish I would have gotten more used Hardware but I mean hard drives were selling out there was so much fomo and luckily even though I did invest in you know um over 20 a terabyte for some of my drives I was able to break even which I consider myself the lucky minority um but I mean at the time if you were blocking and you were buying those drives at those prices it was profitable but but the problem is is that people were buying those and it and they weren't blocking and there was no pools yet and it's like it was just not good and then the netspace just continued to increase and it just got harder and harder to block so yeah I mean it pretty tough um I don't I think I you you like to knock yourself as not being like super Chia but everybody that made baynet with size of any size kudos to them because they got there with the OG plotter and OG plotter was that was difficult that was rough it was like you'd go back and check like in the middle of the night like a baby and it'd be like I've died I gotta [ __ ] restart it so I mean kudos to everybody that OG plotted the OG plotter was legit like art skill to make that thing work and back Brad and optimized that was always the thing you wanted to be like I've got to optimize it and you're like doing all these parallel plots at the same time so it's like hmm it was so much fun I I love that and I was like married to my computer figuring out how to optimize my plots per day I had like all of it laid out um but it was really good but speaking about plots keybase just kind of fired off I think I think storage JM um was talking about an optimized plot is this some Alpha that we're dropping here I I think this is fairly Alpha so if you look at the product board portal can you pull that up real quick so people can see that uh the most this is this is interesting the most voted on thing here that has I guess you know the the little uh people this is q1 2023 okay yes and it's a uh yeah it's at the bottom there oh yeah I see it you see eight eight people have interacted with that the most important thing still two people in Chia is the impacts that you're gonna see on plotting their operations this is where people's Focus still heavily is because Chia still is look at you I need to put in then I need to put in an email address but I'm I'm not gonna do that right now but yeah yeah uh but people are still definitely motivated the most in my estimation by Farm operations their Farm operations and being Farmers that is the biggest group or cohort of people in Chia at the moment so we don't have nfts having critical mass of people that is greater than that we don't have D5 at all really essentially for the most part uh we don't have Bridges we don't have oracles so I think when we see plot format 2.0 and with what I just read re-plotting being something that is coming as a part of that that tells mean new plot structure which if you and a lot of people in the audience may not have gone back and actually ran no SSD which I totally understand and I mean it's not that the tech doesn't work it's that the personality behind the tech that launched it just was like I are you gonna really marry that person I wouldn't have married that person is what it came down to in my estimation especially being tied to a single pool a little too much risk involved with that but there is something to be said for plot format 2.0 the no SSD Tech the optimizations that went into it being actually very revolutionary there is a hellmanesque aspect of it so there probably is going to be some portion of compute that is dedicated towards that the plot the actual plotting itself for no SSD is a different plotter so it is essentially a different plotter that creates the different plot format files so that is a re-plotting vector this is why when I'm plotting drives for people I leave enough space for a plot at the end of each Drive eventually hopefully we can come up with a script that deletes a plot as the next plots being written so that you can still maintain space optimization during X replotting or whatever is going on here yeah 100 and so with this plot 2.0 format we're talking about a 20 Improvement in plot compression which means that it's going to be 20 smaller I have a feeling that this is going to feel a lot like the OG days where you know I mean like the faster that you can plot you can there's a lot of gains available to those who can plot really fast I mean it's 20 and most I would argue that most is like most of the netspace probably won't re-plot just because it's kind of cumbersome they don't want to reply will I think it'll only be about 60 though I don't think that we'll see more than 50 to maybe just I think it's going to be more than 50 that's my prediction that's that's a fair take but I think that there is an opportunity the faster you re-plot you can earn more quicker um exactly and I'm gonna try and figure out how to do that um but I'm excited for it I know we don't know what we just know a rough quarter and like it could be at the end of quarter one 2023 so I don't think that it's a wise thing to be like I'm not going to farm during this time or I'm going to forego farming during this time because again 2024 what happens happening so if you're in accumulation mode you want to accumulate right so that's my thought on it is keep building up your bags while you're waiting for whatever comes down the pipeline with prop plot format 2.0 this does this I even mentioned this because I started suspecting it when I saw a 20 dropped in this I was like 20 that sounds a lot to go SSD I was like oh if it's like no SSD Tech and I know that they had talked about doing some of the optimizations there's bigger implications because no SSD is not like you said it and it's not that it's not the same Chia software Ops that you're used to currently so I think that we will see something pretty pretty interesting here I don't know how this scales out to people that have OG plots I think a lot of the people that will not reply are like h Pool OG pool I mean if you've got OG plots by now you probably have given up on replaying already and you're like whatever so those people probably have a performance disadvantage uh my actual other question is is 20 and people may not realize this unless they've ran the no SSD software and I was lucky that one of the channel members Mike is just like an awesome you know HPC like really like genius and so we were able to isolate and run no SSD in a controlled environment and do some analysis on it uh you can actually get better than 20 sometimes there's a there's a balance there so like it could be bigger who knows well it does say greater than 20 it does say greater than 20 so I know I know so yeah I think there's a lot to digest right there that's why when I did the video This is actually the impetus between the should I replot k32 to k33 34 35 if you're plotting for the first time I think plot to optimize but at the same time there's extra energy required so you would want to be very cautious about what you because I think the lifespan of anything you plot right now could be short I think there's a shortness to that and so is k32 safe I think k32 is absolutely safe and I think that they have enough handles to adjust even if k-32 ever had a vector that they could say we're going to change this uh and it would essentially make it much more difficult for whatever Vector got opened up there so I don't think k32 is going away a lot of people were like why would I reply and I'm like did you watch the video or did you just come and type in the comments uh reading the title like you should not reply in my estimation at all unless it's to maximize usage of space that's the only thing that matters at this point in time in my estimation maximizing usage of space as much as possible on any hard drive oh yeah yeah it's exciting so I guess we'll have to wait and see um about that but um you know the the the part of this that's good possibly is if it happens during a cold part of the year uh ancillary like heating from it it could be reused in households it's not going to have that big of an impact necessarily for people that are like in the middle of the summer in hot environments like Texans like so I I don't know if we're gonna see it happen early in quarter one but quarter one 2023 I hope it's early in quarter one 2023 when it's still cold that's the best time to plot if you got to do plotting yeah agreed agreed I mean it could be in January which is kind of cold so you're you're in California so everything's beautiful there uh like when is it bad uh well I guess wildfires are bad but besides from that like it's pretty damn nice there uh but the rest of the world that doesn't have just this gorgeous climate uh yeah then I think you probably would be hoping for the early on I also have to say I think that this is critical that they do they have to maintain part Equity with the market space out there if they don't maintain par Equity with what the market space is doing there is huge implications people eventually probably do start going to no SSD private label stuff who knows like I mean there could be other people that gain Advantage so I think that there's a large impetus to make this happen yeah and I think that this is net net going to be a good thing for the ecosystem because it proves the adaptability of the technology of proof of space and time is resilient because even with this 20 Advantage it's not like the people that have the OG plots just stop earning it's just they stop earning at X additional percentage if they're unwilling to plot so it again goes back to the individual and that is like when you talk about the differences between Tech like Chia Tech versus everything else out there to my knowledge like that is a big L1 ethereum Now 51 censorship capabilities from the Mev boosts like yeah Chia does not have this going forward Chia is they saw this they tea leaves it they called it right I mean Bitcoin it's just a matter of time until the pools which is where the consensus formation happens before we have stratum V2 the pools are going to be forced to have a consensus that that hey these are blocks that are of fat compliant so I think that Chia is going to maintain and adapt to the tech very well because they called it early and they went into it like with the formation of the consensus block here it's at the individual level so unless I'm doing it literally on my own operations to boost you know fees or something it's very very difficult to do especially in this type of a model yeah yeah so let's move on from plotting and farming and everything how are your operations by the way how is your very pretty cabinet doing Canal Dusty I need to I need to probably um reorganize I need like I do need more cable management and I want to like clean it really well um so is there something that you've added recently to it no I have not added really anything I mean other than when I switch back to farming on my Mac I haven't done anything and I don't really foresee myself adding more to it um and I'm not talking about hard drives I'm talking about safety gear here no I need an uh UPC is that what it's called UPS UPS see I don't even know what it's called I need that um I mean but it's it's it's still going okay but fingers crossed you know you just got it all dangling off that one circuit there you are a brave individual I love you for that but tell me this how is farming on the map going you are six months and now I believe right yeah so it's going well but there's one weird thing that keeps on happening and I think I honestly think that this is due to um a power thing but sometimes some of the drives will just like stop being connected so all of a sudden a few drives will just um not really register on the Mac and um then I have to like speed just like this okay so then the only fix that I can do for it is like turn everything off except my Mac I can leave that on but I have to unplug all my drives um and then plug up and then uh turn them all back on and then it generally fixes it um but the problem that I have with it is I don't know when it's like when that happens so I have to like be monitoring on a daily basis it hasn't happened as of recently um but I think it it relates to electricity actually because when it was a lot hotter we were running some AC units um you know some like portable ones and it seemed to happen more when those were running so the air conditioners are put away they're not in use anymore and I haven't had the problem since so we'll see probably not oh my God you're so risky oh yeah uh you're gonna be in Austin soon and I'm looking forward to meeting up with you and Dusty we probably will try to film something uh if we can all get together at the same time that sounds like a really cool video to have also you guys are coming in for F1 yeah yeah we uh go to Formula One every year we've we've gone every year since the first race in Austin uh just me and my dad and so it's cool to you know have a little mini Chia meet up um and so that should be really fun yeah so stay tuned for that video yeah definitely and if you're in the Austin area maybe we can all meet up together at some place we'll get some more details as that gets closer and closer here so uh yeah what else is on the ecosystem going on we've got nfts uh we've got dexy bucks like I wanted to talk to you about that and like I really don't necessarily understand 100 Dixie Buckshot uh and what are is your take on Dixie bucks yeah I think Dixie books is really interesting it's like first off it's like the the it's the number one um cat token on dexy right now like if you like look it up um I think how they like to format It Is by how much is being offered um as bids so they like to say hey how much xch is locked up um uh and they kind of um organize it like that and so dixiebox is number one by a by a steep margin it just passed stably I think maybe a week ago um so without a doubt there's a lot of um like volume around there there's a lot of hype I think around Dixie bucks um and it's the first true cat I think that has like like a real world use case I think now I say that lightly because I like I think the main purpose of dexy bucks is basically um if you own it once there's amms I think dexy is going to be Distributing out um the amm fees as rewards to Dixie bucks holders I think this is also dexy's um I think uh uh monetization strategy is that is that since they own a large portion of Dixie bucks um they will be getting a large portion of the fees right um so so I think that what they're trying to do is they're trying to monetize what they're doing um now they said that they wouldn't sell Dixie bucks for money um which I think is pretty interesting um and I think that well they would lose their ownership stake right if they sold the Dixie bucks they would not be in control essentially of their own operations because there's a danger there if they do start selling dexy bucks like yeah are they are they out like but I I don't think they're actually going to do that it sounds like in Reading what they wrote recently did you read the thing where they talked about the team the cohesion between the team and like I did they've worked together for a really long time in software development so they can have like a really rapid iteration cycle I think it's very bullish on dexie that they've got such a good team behind them I was always kind of of the opinion that it was one individual uh but me too so that is and they're killing it I mean they came out of nowhere there was like no real hype when they first launched um and all of a sudden they were a thing and I'm like oh okay let's see this because I think when cats first came out there was I think um hash green was like the first major um uh decks to launch which yeah um and you know I used hash green mostly but I mean dexy just feels a lot cleaner um you know I think that there needs to be multiple dexes use hash green mostly currently no no no back back in the day so back in back when cats kind of first launched um hash screen was my main source and then when Dixie came around I started using that a little bit more and more and I really like how how just Dexys laid out um and yeah I haven't used hash Green in I couldn't tell you how long and folks if you're interested in reading the article it was an interview done by xch Central JM and uh that it was a good article it was a great it was a really good article and he asked a lot of really great questions in the answers that he got back were actually really insightful into what's going on at dexy so overall very bullish on that and I know recently some nft projects have actually been selling and this is one of the cool things in Chia is you can say hey I want to sell in one of the ancillary cats instead of chia so people have been selling like the honk program or the honk project the alpha gooses the alpha gooses has sold with dbx as the initial launch token so that's pretty cool uh and I think it's really cool the currently offered is 58 xch they're currently offered on usds Stapley is 46. space bucks is 34. so we have actually a pretty decent spread of them being the most value that is being offered to be transacted on the exchange at this moment so that's really cool do offer files propagate across all of the platforms or if I'm not mistaken they go to a ipfs system and then they all pull mutually from that is that does that sound right or is that not right I think some of them like like it's not every single one like I know Sky nft since they're a little bit more centralized um like if you were to post an offer on dexie it's not going to go to Sky nft or like whatever um but I mean I don't I don't know if you post an offer on Dixie it also post a hash screen I I think they're separate there but I think offer pool or something like that like one of the other like um ancillary dexes well I think it is has yeah PFS backend or something yeah yeah so I think that they I think Dixie utilizes one of those um services but regardless um I think dexie's probably the just the number one way to go um I think one thing that I would like to see with dexy in terms of nft trading is it's interesting um I feel like with nfts your trading pictures right and when you look at the nft market and let's see you already go into Chia friends for example you know you're seeing almost like a list and it's kind of hard to see the photo and unless you're hovering over the actual image I like I think I would love to see the photo be bigger so that you know you can more browse in a more user-friendly way because you know that's what you're trying to do you're trying to get a picture um and it's kind of hard to see the picture mode option for the view yeah okay yeah no that's a great idea actually because it is it's like a little like and on mobile especially like I use dexia on mobile a lot like it's like you're having to zoom in and stuff I think I might drop that in the suggestions and they're a Discord um that's a good idea and we'll link to all of this stuff in the description below folks so check there uh let's talk farmer's market because he recently has been working on some stuff that I saw last night was coming out and why don't we talk about this also because this is a good primer for people that are trying to understand the differences between ranking options so we now have statistical Rarity which I mean statistical Rarity to me has always felt like a formula then we have Rarity score which seems to actually for some reason my brain thinks like that can you get a little bit more into why that might be yeah so I don't know the exact calculations for this so I just want to preface with that I think um you know I was looking at farmer's market and I was looking at to your friends actually and you know I was toggling between Rarity scores the display really quick so people can see where we're talking about because you by default it's going to stay on statistical Rarity for now um and then selecting Rarity score you have to do from like the little drop down on the side yeah so much advancements here from John Who hats off awesome rapid iteration lots of design yeah John I I'm always so impressed by how clean this looks uh how user friendly it is this provides I feel like so much value to the community and just kind of understanding like hey so how rare is my nft right um so yeah so if you were just to go to Farmers Market dot CC you can scroll down here and go to cheer friends you can also go to explore Collections and you can see all the different collections that have been listed John list all these I think by hand so you know lots of um work that has gone involved or that has gone into building this but if we're in Geo friends we can see this ranking option here once it loads give it a sec here and it defaults to statistical Rarity this is what it's been since the beginning um of farmers market uh I'm pretty sure cheer friends was one of the first listings it's always been a statistical Rarity Rarity score is new right um and so I I'm pretty sure now there's an article on this that I want to link in the description that goes into significantly more detail I was talking with John a little bit about this and and this is kind of where he was um kind of pulling his ideas from um but what it seems like is this Rarity score seems to be more of the industry standard now why don't we select a trait and then run the differences so why don't we pull in the umals uh for Tan really quick and then run the differences so we people can see the impact Act of these differences out there all right let's do that you want utan yeah all right so we have utan we have Rarity score right now you know and when we're looking at this you know it's pretty decently ranked uh when we're looking at some of the top ones um let's just toggle back and forth really quick yeah so you see the difference in the top ranked one based upon the hieroglyph that it's displaying immediately going to the bow so that it feels different right like doesn't it feel different to you it definitely does and I I think what it what it what it really does is it kind of like says Okay so this one this is a 0.14 of chia friends have this type of background and I think it it gives a little bit more weight to things that are a lot more rare the statistical Rarity aspect of things versus Rarity score this is saying that it's not as rare based upon the Rarity score right right so the outliers are less of an outlier less of a large weight on the algorithm that is being used is that as Fair statement yeah so one thing I think that actually might um kind of illustrate this is I want to look at the let's see uh Cactus gold okay now I'm biased on gold cactuses this is obviously Cactus gold owner so this this could just be him pumping bag let's say that I think I think it it it it it really kind of paints a really good picture um because if you so on Rarity score these are super rare um now there's only 10 gold cactuses in the whole 10 000 collection okay that's not a lot to me that sounds pretty rare now if we go to statistical Rarity we see all of these figures jump significantly higher right and when you and when we're looking at these individual traits you know on on its own it might not be too it might not be too impressive but when you're looking at like we have a gold Cactus this is super rare how is something that's this rare number two 2200 right um and so when we look at Rarity score all of these jump into the top 100. um now I I like I do want to caveat that like Rarity is subjective um you know people oftentimes make buying decisions based upon what they think the Rarity is um not Financial advice at all um you know there's there's multiple ways and there's even more calculations of how you can calculate Rarity um but I think that Rarities score paints a better picture um because this makes a lot more sense aligns with what you expect on the whole aggregate when you're looking at the complete set of something and it's actual like distribution of X in that yeah and I do want to also say that I'm not an expert on Rarity so I do want to reference the link below in the description of the medium article that kind of talks a little bit about the different types of Rarities and the calculations there um but yeah so this is great I absolutely love this I think that that that purchasers and buyers of nfts should have access to as much information as possible when kind of considering okay what do I get and I think that this gets us closer to saying hey here's all the information you need to make a decision that makes the most sense for you so I love this I love what John does um you know keep building John I love it the carne mouth one there's one for sale right now for 35 xch in Rarity score number 88 in statistical Rarity number 1081. so so you're gonna get that one differences 35x CH for 1081 I don't know I don't I don't know that I would would I pay a thousand would I pay 35x CH for a top 100 top 100 like that changes the make that just changes the game like that that is the i in it honestly looks like a top 100 to me but that's just my take on it so like it seems to align better with what my brain expects yeah it it really does and and you so I paid 20 xch for my Golden Boy now it was listed at around 30 35 or 40 or something like that and I ended up actually bidding that down um how to bid down because I don't think people know how to do that yet I don't know how to do that yet so yeah if you're in the Chia client you go into offers and you create a nft offer a xch4 nft offer um and when kind of going through that process um what you're doing is you're saying hey I'm gonna lock up this xch and I'm gonna say hey I want this nft and hopefully that person sees it that's that that's the the struggle with bidding is that you don't know if they're going to see it or not you can't message them you don't know who owns it you might if you like if it's associated with the did but likely not um and so you know I kind of got lucky when I posted my bid um you know and we were kind of going back and forth I would upload an offer and then he'd counter it immediately and I was like okay we're having some fun here um and so I I would recommend bidding I think that bidding is highly underrated most of my Chia friends that I currently own that are in my did now actually yeah most of them I got because I bid I like I bid for them they were listed for something for some amount I bid a little bit lower and someone took the offer and so that's how I have most of my cheer friends that I do now highly recommend it um especially like it's an opportunity to also save money on purchasing a Chia friend right so that's important if you are going to buy any sort of an nft is consider the fact that you may end up just holding something that has very little value in the long term I know that my purchases of nfts I've I've not done a good job of flipping anything so I'm just long on all of it I've tied up a lot of XC agent to nfts would you would you uh put a number on that no yeah it's it's it's it's a lot it's a lot are you happy with your purchases or do you feel like um tell me more about that I'm just curious so I think this psychology of thumbo works on me does that make sense the psychology only makes sense psychology of FEMA works on me you and like the pla was the beginning of you've got a problem like honestly where is nft rehab group for me it's probably what I need like I need to check into some DJing Anonymous or something but yeah so the psychology of fomo works on me and I do love art I like here's the weird thing so I purchase art in the real world I have like actual pieces of oil paintings and real art in the real world and like number go up on that you know what I mean like you buy something with some provenance it's probably gonna number go up however if I were to go to Target and buy a piece of art number does not go up like so there's a difference in a balance that makes sense I just have failed to abstract that and apply it to nfts because each one is unique and you might think to yourself ah each one's unique so number go up but that does not play out really that just does not play out and I think that is the importance between like a statistical and like a rarity score is the alignment of what is probably going to be perceived by other individuals in a common framework and I guess that's how reality is created if we think about it so a shared common reality and that's probably why a lot of people I mean a lot a lot of people probably would have my viewpoint on I've lost a lot of money on nfts or I've just I mean I haven't lost it until I sell it so yeah is it losing or are you just spending money on something that you wanted yeah so I mean I got better about doing that and so like all the cheer Reapers I have are super dope and I really like them wait no no no no I fomo'd into one of the contests there I am lying like I feel mode into one of the contests and I bought something that I was like yeah I probably wouldn't have bought that Chia Reaper else-wise but I was trying to win a 5x CH prize it was a pretty substantial xch prize yeah it was a little scavenger hunt I think it was pretty fun I ended up buying like a few as well for it did you win I don't think I did I don't remember it I don't remember you winning I don't think I won yeah but there was a fomo aspect so like fomo Works uh like I've bought a lot of things that I just like like recently I did buy some of the honk things from foods and I just like those uh I I would say early on I bought some stuff that I didn't quite realize was kangan um so my Austin city Illusions you know maybe 5x CH wasn't a good purchase price for that I also kind of was like let's get a video out and let's find one that doesn't have a license associated with it and that one fit the bill very nicely so I was like I can use this as a demonstration piece did I overspend on it yeah am I gonna get that money back no there's a lot of lessons learned there I don't like to buy things that I like there's a psychology of you feel bad when you buy something and you're not going to make your money back and you just know it you know what I mean like I've I've definitely curtailed my spending on nfts like dramatically recently as a result of these realizations and like you actually talked me off like I was like oh my God I need to do all these things and like I tried to list some for sale and like they just didn't sell and I was like you know it's gonna be a like I've already purchased them with crypto so like I've already got a tax thing there like am I gonna create more of a tax thing by like realizing in the same year like the sale like this it's like it's not worth it but yeah probably north of 50 xch tied up I'll just save it yeah I mean I I like your comment about like Target ART versus like real art I I think that that is super interesting um I think that that that like hit hit me in my heart um in just thinking about I'm like okay are we are we buying Target art is that what we're doing right like because how much is a piece of art at Target right 14.99 or something 24.99 like it's it's just commodity retail good versus something that when you buy real art has provenance it has soul and this is what she is really trying to focus on I get this from when I talk to Seth I get this from when I talk to like uh eming like they want the provenance aspects to be front and center in what your purchase decisions are and to bring and they are building the Frameworks for that provenance and the digital art space that is better than anybody else so that that is one of the reasons that still regardless of whether I tie up a bunch of xch that I'm not going to get back in nfts like I still like the aspect of it that I am helping facilitate an ecosystem that is creating incentives for artists to see and I would say if you are an artist in the Chia ecosystem you probably feel actually fairly well incentivized with the way things have gone so far in nfts so that encourages more people that might not traditionally get in to get in and we get weird projects that like I'm absolutely in love with Chichi like there's a Halloween Chichi thing coming up I'm just like I want one I know I want one and I think thematically having projects that do things around holidays is like amazing and I think there's going to be some stuff I know that there was uh put your orange Reaper uh I saw that too yeah so I mean glad I had that I mean as a matter of fact the number of dumb things that I've bought that have turned into airdrops of things that I actually like uh like who would think that buying like 50 plus Hardy Boys for that what the hell was I think like all that airdrop of additional nandy so now I've got and I really like the nandies uh and that is going to play into something that's actually really cool in the short term I've got something in the mail I got something in the mail it's going to be here soon and we're going to be cry cutting ourselves some stickers for folks it's going to be [ __ ] awesome you've got hard drives guess what you're gonna get and they're unique I got some more unique artwork yeah nfts they're they're Hardy Boys you've never seen them before and they're gonna be stickers being said that to people I love that that's so fun yeah and so I'm sure that there will be more things like that and I think the tie-in if you are an artist in the nft ecosystem two ongoing things like that is important to explore because the creation of a community the fostering of that community and the ongoing what happens next if you can keep those things going you can create a value proposition that people really really are interested in yeah I avoid the target art though gotta avoid the target yeah and you know I I think that unless unless um like it's it's really difficult I think to make money uh with Chia nfts I think in general I think any nft is going to be really difficult especially Chia because Chia thin like she is so thin we don't have tens of thousands of people like I think PVP we talked about this recently we did 100 100 people probably PVP about busted ft projects yeah I'd say maybe 200 I'd like the absolute most um you know I think people might see some volume going on on a project in my fomo into one or two um but I I think it's it's a lot of PVP um and you know it's it's I think that for you to successfully trade a pro like a project it has to sell out and you know we've talked about this before like there's not a lot of project but like completely sell out um and that's a big hurdle to trying to create volume and drive demand and all this stuff it's just it's just extremely hard um yeah it's just such a small ecosystem but I think that's okay um or you a Chia friend I am gfo yeah I do it I'm trying to figure out who tfos is um I think we all know who gfos is really though you know I thought I did and then I asked and then I'm like oh actually it's probably not but are they gonna tell you if you ask them and they're keeping it secret like I don't know that's a bad idea for somebody trying to keep a secret I would say so um but you know I I think the gfo is really interesting um you know I I'm with some updates last night in a Chia space and Twitter that Seth was talking about I did not get to attend that space but I was reading some possible things like you actually you may be able to remix your own cheer friend with the is that your take away the traits that it has or is it just remixing that specific one because tfos if you folks are not aware are a remix that they plan on fairly uh like a fair distribution they say fair distribution I'm challenging them because like when they said Fair distribution and then they like launched a Google sheet I was like [ __ ] please like tell me how that fair distribution that not fair distribution like do something novel like come on you can Traverse the blockchain you can do an airdrop of nfts to people who have nfts in their wallet and that is something you can do with the tech that Shia has released so I love to like lot those challenges out there people but yeah I don't know necessarily gfos Chia friends how the licensing is going to work it sounds like they're working something out so that's good whatever it is it sounds like they are working something out yeah I think Seth has mentioned something about um updated licensing to allow for more creativity around the the cheer friends that you that you own um I I also did not listen to the space as well so this is hearsay um I think that that space was not recorded so I don't know 100 like I can go back and confirm this um but I think that the one space we should have been in I know one space we should have been in I couldn't make it I wish I could but uh but you know I think that it's interesting what they're doing with gfos I think it's an interesting derivative um and depending on how this I think that the distribution can make or break this project because yes and and if it doesn't um if it doesn't go well I think the project flops it also depends on how much royalties they're going to be charging it depends on who's getting that Royal idea of royalties for this to be honest with you what if it goes to a charity yeah I'm still I mean is it my right to launch and say I'm going to use XX for another like I I'm kind of opposed to it that's one of my biggest sticking points is when they started talking about royalties I became Chia friend well I mean I was already YouTuber but I became even more cheer friend at that point so I was like no I'm on the friend side of this like I don't see it necessary I like the idea of factions to be honest with you also because it's engagement farming and every rumor has it this guy is into YouTube and so engagement farming something I like so yeah I mean I I wouldn't mind if they did royalties um and donate it to a charity I think there was maybe some talk around potentially burning the royalties because the royalties are important because it helps with wash Trading so there needs to be some fee associated with it or cost to trading it but again I think that the gfos is going to really resonate with people burn it can you tell me that so the royalty address can be sent to the burn address there's a burn address for nfts you can send Chia and cats to that address as well if no one has those keys out of Supply but it does not have the address nobody has the keys you're sure about that because it doesn't actually hopefully oh yeah right because it doesn't destroy it does not destroy accountable so it's not really burning yeah that it's still there yeah you can't it's gonna pile up somewhere correct yes but I so I mean I again I don't know this is just what what people were talking about but um I I think that the gfos are going to resonate with people that felt burned by cheer friends um which I think is a fair take I think some there's a there's a a subset of of a community that feels like you know what like they didn't do this right which is a fair take um but you know I I think that we'll see how it goes hard for them to do the thing that I talked about the secure the bag Traverse the blockchain see who have nft uh secure the bag airdrop them see if they open it pull it from an IEP address that is on a server that you own recurse that and then separate out the multiples of IP addresses and then assume that that's your actual nft using audience in Chia that is what I challenge uh anybody actually out there that if you want to airdrop a project do that because that is fair distribution anything like less than that I don't think is going to be fair distribution if you are counting on International speaking people to know seriously english-centric Twitter and seriously small English Centric Twitter that is chia nft Bill like that's a small subset of the world that's really on Twitter hitting just that and like there's so many people that are left out of that equation I don't like the word Fair distribution being used for that I don't think that that's actually that's that's twitter-centric distribution is what happens there true but then there's also this balance of like okay so how many people are still farming but they don't even know what a Chia nft is right and then and that's why you have to do the second part which is airdrop an initial nft and then have that be on a logged server that yourself that you can actually see that image got pulled because until you open up the nft wallet that image will not get pulled by somebody so airdropping nft give it 30 days and 30-day window people actually opened up their Chia client and went to the nft tab and this image got pulled by this IP address is something that you can associate and then you can say that IP address belongs to this in this Chia address and that's the person to airdrops you so that is that's super I did not know that that's actually so win clawback is what I'm hearing well yeah I guess there's bigger implications for sure I mean I think is it clubhack like 2020 like it's kind of too far out for this I feel like yeah yeah I don't think you don't even need clawback to do this like you don't like and as a matter of fact this is like the fingerprinting this is basically fingerprinting the ecosystem of people in Chia that have nfts and there was a lot of speculation that uh annoy nation was doing this uh because it could have been um but if you own the server you keep IP logs of everybody and the associated time that it was opened and boom you've got yourself a likely candidate for somebody that has nfts that they're viewing on Chia I did not know this this is like super interesting to me um so I'm just saying if you want to do Fair distribution it's possible technically to do like provably Fair distribution if you want to do something else don't necessarily call it like Fair distribution like it's a sign up right now to a Google sheet and that is like it's a sign up to Google sheet it's going to have flaws just like anything else and if you think Google Sheets can't be gained okay I'm sure somebody's working on it right now if it if it even turns into a manual gaming process like somebody and their friends and a group of people somewhere will be like let's do it on the like that this will become their side project and like that is the part of it that I think the distribution being fair like you're saying is critical to the success of this project I think the art can be really fun I am hoping that we see more oohs and Vipers like that would be really cool and Hawks ooze vipers and Hawks because I mean this might be your one chance also to get something like a time lord and like that is going to be you know pretty that's super coveted right now you're not going to get Time Lord unless you you know spend a ton of xch on it on the open markets so this could be one of the chances for people to get into things they can't afford elsewhere out there so I am excited for that I'm excited for more people being able to get into nfts so if they approach this right if it is actually really fair and people have like there's a lot of people that might click their nft have have nothing at all in there and so they just are like whatever like maybe and this thing shows up and then they start oh hey wow there's more information maybe there's a piece of you know content in the metadata that says hey go to this you know web web page and learn read about nfts here's your link to Dixie so you can utilize this and actually make some xch if you want to flip it like that is the kind of challenges that I think could grow the ecosystem in a meaningful way that is what I hope to see I that's hard though that's hard that's going to take Talent that's going to take time and that's going to take preparation and I don't necessarily know that that's going to happen in this instance that's just my take on it we'll see yeah really interesting I'm excited to see I was I was talking with them a bit um and I think that um because I was I was like Curious I was asking some some questions and like giving some feedback and it seems like they're getting some data from space scan to kind of like aggregate um you know okay so you know let's let's air drop some to people that want to block in the last six months or whatever so I think they're working with them to try and gather some data but I also think they're gonna like segregate different types of distribution so there's going to be some that's airdrop to block winners some that's through a puzzle maybe you know there's all speculation but um but yeah so let's see how it goes I'm I'm all for it um it's ten thousand of them that's a lot that's it's gonna be the next pretty much biggest project um on Chia so you think it's going to be the next biggest project on Shia well in terms of just numbers so there's gonna be 10 000 number you think the weekly volume will be above I mean it will for a while but will it maintain is my question because we see this with every new Chia nft project almost that has any Community Building going into it on launch the number is like right under Chia friends and then it creeps down and like that's almost universally been the so you think it stays number two is what you're saying um no I I like I think that in terms of just total like there's 10 000 of these things that's a big project that's like a lot of nfts to like throw out onto the market um so I'm I'm interested in other people launching 10 000 nft collections though I don't think it's wise but we do have that I mean I don't I haven't heard of them right and and I think that like there was a couple that were that big is I not I don't know I I couldn't tell you um oh wait you know I think um no if if you know of some we need John Wood now John on one of these soon I think there is but there might not be but a notable notable ten thousand the only notable ten thousand well now you're adding on notable like just just ten thousand there are others that are ten thousand so that's why I mean how good the execution is on the deliverables after the fact are gonna make it and that comes down to that distribution actually being fair because if you look at one or two or three Mega bags of it then that it's gonna fall into the same kind of melu that we had with cheer friends and my estimation I don't necessarily think I mean what it here's me being like I love being the The Devil's Advocate on all this this is interesting also because usually You're The Devil's Advocate on things so let me be the Chia friend again here how does this change price I mean we're saying that one person bagging up a bunch of cheer friends was bad what happened if the price collapsed and it wasn't that one person that could have been a good thing but it might have dropped support for people that really fumbled in early like I know an iPhone with it early at really high prices on some Chia friends so I mean could that have provided floor support with whatever the person's doing that has a fair amount of them we're pretty sure we don't necessarily 100 it's very hard to tie this down but we were like really very close to pretty sure that one person really swiped up a tremendous amount of them right yeah I mean I would say that it's that person at least has a hundred of them you know um and but like you know I think that the pr so what's what's really interesting about free projects is that a market gets established and like the market decides what the price is rather than okay for cheer Reapers for example they list for whatever price I think it was like 0.2 or 0.4 or something like that one when they launched for Reapers I think that was Hardy I think that was harder okay yeah regardless There Was An established price of hey this is the price out the gate if you want to own one this is the cost to that and then from there it goes up or down and what we see I think a lot of times is like when there's additional airdrops people list below that because I just want to get rid of them and they want to bag some xch that's fine um but like what if all of them get get like distributed so the only way you get one is if you somehow were able to get an airdrop or you solve the puzzle or something like that and then now there's this market demand that gets established and there's a lot of inefficiencies I think in a very early Market in this way so people don't know what it costs and so you know people are buying people are selling and then slowly and slowly there starts to become this floor where you know there's this this floor gets established and then that's kind of what becomes the actual Baseline well and you got to be honest a lot of actual floor control is usually executed by the project owners in many instances that is something that seems to happen is sweeping and so it to say that it's not a normal Market activity sweeping is a normal Market activity it is whether Fair good or or a hindrance to the actual discovery of price is a really good question then like does artificial floor sweeping prop price let me ask you that question I would say yes um it like creates because like oftentimes I feel like you don't know what whether it's one person or a whole bunch of people just fomoing into something um but you know I I like I think that sweeping is fine I think that's natural that's normal um when you have such an illiquid Market where you know the the number of trades in a day are in the single digits um like you know like especially for cheer friends like it it um it's it's easy to say okay let's pump this price a little bit now actually with two friends like the like the floor is fat it's thick so like if you wanted the floor to go from point three four which is what I think it currently is 0.32 or something like that all the way to four you're putting in a huge bag of xch to to to get to that point and then you have a whole bunch of k-32s and starlings which it seems like those ones aren't as in high demand right um or some cyborgs um whatever right so I mean I I think that it with other projects it's easier to to inflate that price by just saying okay I'm going to sweep up from 0.5 xc8 all the way to one xch that's a 50 or that's a 50 gain and it might only cost you a couple xch to do so depending on how thick the floor is right um but I I think that's all natural and that should be expected in this illiquid nft market because we're talking about a floor price what's the cheapest that you could get something for when in reality there's all this stuff above it that and there's activity above it too things aren't just selling it for at the at the floor price they're also selling you know in that middle range that lower middle range I feel like is is a little bit hotter you know that the sub 10x CH range I think is like a pretty good sweet spot for where a lot of the activity happens um but it's super interesting and I think that there's subset of floors within a project so like marmots for example you can look at only marmots and there's a floor price on just marmots right so you can pump the floor price of a certain type of of uh to your friend or a certain type of trait um and I think it's very visible it's very easy to identify that in cheer friends I think at least for me like when I'm looking at them and I'm a cheer friend Maxi um just to let everyone know I have bags I have a 20 xch thing that I paid for so I do have best interest in the price of two friends going up just full disclosure but um but yeah so it's really it's a daily volume of number of Trades so I just added this up I don't know when the day starts for dexie uh they're not based in the United States so it might be G it might be a different I think it so it just says okay right now 24 hours prior here's what the volume has been no matter what time really 167 trades total in the week no daily whoa whoa whoa yeah I'm gonna just take a look at this this is interesting o x c h no no daily trades party monsters had 35 which actually that one looks like it's pretty fun maybe I buy it are you looking on dexy I'm looking on dexy interesting unless I've seen different numbers maybe I added in something but I'm definitely at a hundred plus I mean you can see 35 and then you see Bulldog on daily Rank by daily volume is that what you're looking at I'm gonna share screen really quick just so that we can look at it together because I I think this is some good information too like daily trades is the number I'm looking for here all right so you have daily trades we have chia horse 66 Chief friends has seven right why is yours different than I'm doing Rank by daily volume this one yeah and then look at the daily trades under that right if you add those up I'm getting 167. God it's so all of these right got it I thought you were just talking about two friends and I'm like really well that would be it I'm fine I think that we would like be uh flipping out here we've got Chia horse with 66 cubic in here I guess that one's a new one and then we've got uh party animals or party monsters down there with 35. so I mean there is a significant amount of interest in certain projects that is really initial what happens a week from now for most of these is they're not the number two like right now Chia horse is number two a week from now we'll Chia horse B number two is a you know I don't I kind of don't think it'll be number two that's not me trying to be brutal on the project or anything but most aren't number two for very long so I my question for Chia foes versus Chia friends is does it dilute Market interest in Chia friends your take on that sir I think I think it doesn't um how does it not because there's so little xch transacted like people aren't coming out the pockets with like massive amounts of xch right now so how does it not if you're thinking I'm gonna buy blank today now maybe maybe people sell the gfo and then they reinvest that but I don't think that's what most people are going to do so I I think the two foes are going to be a lot cheaper than to your friends out out the gate so you think so though but I think so like I don't know they are how much cheaper do you think they're going to be have you asked well they're going to be free so the Market's going to establish this um clearly you have a line of communication with the foes so that's interesting in and of itself well they're free so I mean yeah but just in feedback on distribution and all that stuff but like I think that the Market's gonna establish it and I think that that there has been no project except for cheer Reapers that have gone above 1xch and sold out um and so I mean cheer Reapers I would argue is probably the number two projects it works it though man they like work it they're not like just kind of oh we're here they're like freaking really invested in making it happen it seems like to me they are um and it shows right um and and and but like the distribution of traits is enticing also I found with that project I didn't feel like uh there's some like there's a couple things that I'm not but like most projects there's like 50 of them I'm just like no that one there was maybe 10 or 15 that I was like not interested in that so I think the actual like appeal to me was higher on like a psychological level so that probably helped out the sizing of it I thought was incredibly appropriate so yeah I think that for me what I'm looking at every like I'm just looking at okay what are the odds of gfos being more expensive than cheer friends and I think it's low because because it's it's just nothing else has done that away from the number of people that are executing trades like that I'm talking about a drop in Daily trades not a drop in actual price because I think like like you said there's a floor controlling entity out there some person group of people I don't know but somebody really is vested in maintaining that three in three above floor on Shia friends but does that impact the number of actual trades that happen daily I don't know like there's only so many people like we mentioned there's only like what 200 best case PVP people for the most part in Gia like how do we grow that number is the real challenge I don't know how this project grows that number unless it literally gets into the wallets of people who in like grows that number base and I really hope that they can do that that would be really cool to do to see me to and you know I think it's in looking historically at projects we often see you know how like you were talking about this big fomo into like a project and then it kind of dies down and then it kind of settles out and plateaus at that like a chill steady what whatever it is um I think most go to zero that's my take now most Trend down to darn near zero it seems like after the fact like especially if they don't sell out well in the yeah the other thing is like if I wanted to sell a lot of the nfts that I hold right now I could not and I think that that's essentially the same thing as saying it's a zero because there's no demand so you're not going to sell it even it free yep yeah I I do agree with that unfortunately uh but yeah let's move on to something less depressing here I think they're uh there's gonna be some more interest in like the nfts in Chia as we see Community formation around other platform and I think Twitter is the wrong platform for being you know the Centric place of getting people interested geographically very distributed like interest groups are probably not even some places might not even be able to access Twitter Discord on the other hand seems to be like the center of everything finance and like it's bizarre don't ask me to explain it but like they're nft people there so I think getting people into nfts on Discord is going to be way easier than through Mass Appeal on like Twitter or something like that yeah I definitely think there's a place for Twitter although whether or not it's the ideal place I don't know um but yeah I mean I I've been I've been working a little bit on a project um using Discord actually um I'm not going to share any more details other than that I can tell you folks it is not my Discord server because he has not done very much on my Discord server but I have taken a peek at what he's been working on and I am impressed I think this is going to be really good I am impressed yeah we'll see but you know I I think that it's important um to have a place where where people in the Chia nft ecosystem can come hang out and collaborate and build together um and you know kind of utilize some some some tech to bring some utility to nfts as well um and so you know we've been um kind of working together on building something a lot of help from Seth he's been incredible um and um yeah that's that's all I really want to share um but but yeah so is this soon TM or is this soon this is I'm gonna say soon this is not soon Tian I'm gonna say soon because it it uh takes less it's it's less pressure maybe um there you go but but yeah so I mean there needs to be a central place where people can kind of go and I feel like there's a whole bunch of different places um and so you know maybe kind of bringing things together and utilizing some cool Chia nft Tech um could be just a fun fun way to do that uh but we'll see um we will see we will see I'm excited uh so let's uh wrap this up here with that too much more is there anything else you want to talk about real quick or are you good no I think I'm good we had a good time all right and everybody you can hit me up at go Spaceport on Twitter the website digitalspaceport.com the store shop.digitalspaceport.com if you're interested in becoming a channel member you can get a discount and that is at three percent or five percent based on the level you select and Austin drop where people can find you man yeah you can find me on Twitter at a bronze swag um that's about it and will you ever be disclosing your full bags of what nft you own is there a display option where we can do that yet like maybe soon TM okay that one I'm really excited about having a nice display that we can like put it all out but I do have a did on mint card that has that has um all my tier friends so if you wanted to take a look you definitely can can see my bags um I'm gonna link to your I'm going to link that in the description below sure check out the geofriends bags that you're holding right now and I just hope that there's a way to bulk move things at some point because oh my gosh there's a like it's tough yeah there's a lot of crap yeah all right well let me have an answer today see you everybody see you next time